The Battle of the Invisible Friends (aka "Supreme Being Smackdown")

[dianeduane]

Can things get any dumber? Don’t answer that question.

 "There are millions of people around this world praying to their God -- whether it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah -- that [McCain's] opponent wins for a variety of reasons," Pastor Arnold Conrad said. "And, Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they're going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens."

(eyeroll) It’s like something out of a commercial jingle. “My God’s better than your God, my God’s better than yours…” I leave it to others to tease out the five or six hilarious and possibly offensive assumptions and logical fallacies underpinning the above statements.  …But the whole thing factors down to: Please, God, don’t embarrass us. Is it just me, or is there something extremely wrong with that entire line of reasoning…and this guy — a clergyman — doesn’t even see it?

Also:  has it genuinely never occurred to this cleric that somewhere in America there might possibly be someone praying to the very same God he’s (theoretically) praying to that the Unnamed Opponent should win?  And that (to take a slightly different tack) if it turns out to happen that way, that this would — in his theology — be because of his very own God’s will, not as the result of some sublime hyperdimensional WWF match? …No, probably if that concept crept into the guy's head, said head would explode. Was he perhaps trying to be funny? If so, FAIL.

…And here again we have this weirdness about not naming the other guy even at a distance, let alone when he’s standing six feet away. (“That one?” Tsk tsk.)  I mean, surely there’s no point in not-naming even the Lone Power (click here for his version of the icon to the right) or Voldemort when they’re already sitting there waiting for you to finish speaking. Strikes me as rude.

I really, really wish I could just stop reading the news until sometime in December. (mutter) I also really wish I could email stuff like this to C.S. Lewis. Imagine the response.

 

ETA: I found the Ken-L-Ration jingle on this page. Check it out: there's a ton more period stuff there, on numerous pages.)

Comments

[geekosaur]

The Amidah ("standing prayer", the standard prayer recited 3x/day by observant Jews) combines all three possibilities: praise, petition, thanks.

The interactions implicit in Jewish petitional prayer are somewhat complex; on the one hand you are petitioning G-d, on the other there is a sense of focusing your own thoughts because G-d already knows what's in your heart, on the gripping hand the presence and balance of "qeva" (fixed, formal structure) and "qavanah" ("from-the-heart" intention) indicate to G-d how serious you are about your petition, and is understood to be able to "sway" G-d's decrees. And then on the fourth hand, one should preferably pray not for oneself ("he who prays for another, his own needs are answered", roughly). And there are many other levels buried in the Jewish viewpoint, some of them contradictory (but assumed to be reconcilable by G-d).

And Jews are encouraged to pray even for the little (and even selfish!) things: G-d may not grant it, but if nothing else you will get practice (qavanah is *difficult*) — and praying for the selfish stuff with focus may lead you to realize how selfish it is, and more importantly how to make it less so.

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According to the Christian view, Jesus is G-d; He's an aspect which is more "approachable" than the Father is seen to be. I'm not sure how to explain this except to note that it's intended to make the aforementioned qavanah easier, which wont help if you don't understand qavanah. And in many ways qavanah is the fundamental concept in all religions, even the non-theistic ones such as Buddhism ("nirvana" is pure qavanah, with all qeva extirpated).

[comrade-cat.livejournal.com]

I grew up Christian in a Methodist church. There was obviously tons of stuff about Jesus, but you always prayed to God, 'dear Lord.' My friend's faith is all about praying to Jesus & how Jesus is God. It's kind of an interesting difference. I don't know what Methodist official theology has to say about this, & I suspect the various evangelical churches aren't big on official theology beyond a few main points & are very individual.

[geekosaur]

Very. I grew up Methodist myself, but a strain which was oddly close to Judaism in many ways.

It's kind of difficult to speak of a single Methodist theology, because the United Methodist Church is the result of a number of splits and rejoinings from the original Wesleyism and its original split (straight Wesleyism and a strain which combined Calvisist thought).

[tielan]

In our church, 'Lord' could mean either Jesus or God or the whole Trinity, actually.

Under the concept of the Trinity, wouldn't a prayer to one be a prayer to all?

[comrade-cat.livejournal.com]

According to the concept of the Trinity, all 3 are one, but there's a difference which identity churches identify & which name churches use. A different emphasis I guess.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

I grew up regarding "the Lord" as Jesus, but that prayers are addressed to the Father through (the name of) the Son (and implementation of the results is done by the Spirit). But those detailed variations are multitudinous in Christian theology, I've known Jesuits and others who loved debating the possible combinations for hours (OK, I admit that I love listening to those debates knowing that I don't have anything invested in finding a 'true' answer)...

[geekosaur]

Another approach the the Christian Trinity: Father, Son, Spirit approximate Mother, Maid, Crone. (I'm given to understand Crowley intended that mapping, although more complex than that approximation.)

[comrade-cat.livejournal.com]

Ooh, pretty icon!

[geekosaur]

Come to think of it, given our hostess, I should probably clarify that I mean the Crowleyist view, not Diane's! As I understand it, the comparison of the two Trinities was one of the things that differentiated Crowley from his peers.