Oh, boy, is this one going to run and run

[dianeduane]

Christians Sue For Right Not To Tolerate Policies

Ruth Malhotra went to court last month for the right to be intolerant.

Malhotra says her Christian faith compels her to speak out against homosexuality. But the Georgia Institute of Technology, where she's a senior, bans speech that puts down others because of their sexual orientation.

Malhotra sees that as an unacceptable infringement on her right to religious expression. So she's demanding that Georgia Tech revoke its tolerance policy.

And a little further on in the article we find out why:

In their lawsuit against Georgia Tech, Malhotra and her co-plaintiff, a devout Jewish student named Orit Sklar, request unspecified damages. But they say their main goal is to force the university to be more tolerant of religious viewpoints.

So let me get this straight. They're suing to stop tolerance...to increase tolerance? (headclutch)

I have got to stop reading the news before I've had my tea. (staggers off, muttering)

Tags: Christianity, religion, tolerance, intolerance, no I don't mean the film and I really wish I did

Comments

[feorag.livejournal.com]

It gets more complicated - she's saying that homosexuality should not be tolerated because it's a "lifestyle choice", but religion (which really is a matter of choice) should be tolerated even though it's intolerant. Hope this clears things up for you.

[dduane.livejournal.com]

Um. Can I scream now? Eeeeeeeeeeauggggggh!

(clunk)

I need more tea. Thanks, however. :)

[feorag.livejournal.com]

Glad to be of service ;)

BTW, nowhere in your links up there on the right, do you include a link to your European cooking pages, which is what I'm hunting for right now...

[dduane.livejournal.com]

Oh! I should fix that -- thanx.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://www.europeancuisines.com

[keristor.livejournal.com]

You need to understand the different words being used. I know that 'tolerance' and 'tolerance' look alike, but they are really quite different. It's like (but unlike) the difference between the standard pronunciation of 'subtle' (tactful, non-intrusive, slight) and the east London pronunciation which has a glottal stop instead of the 't' ('suh-l') and means "like with a Viking axe"...

"We insist that people must tolerate us being intolerant..."

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

While the student is unlikely to win damages, the college is going to lose on the speech code issue—whenever it's come up before, U.S. federal courts have ruled that public-college bans on offensive speech (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/5822.html) (however defined) are inconsistent with first-amendment protections of speech.

[bynkii.livejournal.com]

Oh, I dunno, I think if one was sufficiently evil enough, one could have fun with this..

"I don't like that you have a picture of Christ making him look like a thief and a panderer, it oppresses my religion"

"Well Bill, as you said in your lawsuit, lifestyle choices are not protected by law, so until you come up with a genetic link to religious choice, it's in the same boat you put homosexuality in, so suck it up princess"

Yeah, I have conversations with my boss a *lot*. We usually agree that me having my desk in the server room is a good idea after all.

[satismagic.livejournal.com]

*speechless*

I can't believe people are actually doing stuff like that.

[posicat.livejournal.com]

In any group, it's always the strange and the odd behavior that stick out and get attention. Unfortunately the press is always there to give them their 15 minutes.

I almost wonder sometimes, if lawsuits like this are intentionally exagerated to gain press coverave. Making it outrageous enough to send the reporters flocking in to give the lawsuit a louder voice.

Playing devils advocate however, this does ahve some interesting free-speach implecations. Essentially the university has told her her speach is no longer free. I suspect the college is a government body from it's name. That would mean the government is trying to limit speach, while having laws that says it cannot do so.

[angoel.livejournal.com]

The students say denying them recognition — and its attendant benefits, such as funding — violates their free-speech rights and discriminates against their conservative theology.

I think that this sentence is the key one - the assumption that a right to free speech should translate to a right to recognition and funding.

[lady-autumnstar.livejournal.com]

Please tell me that even though these students are IN Georgia, they are not FROM Georgia. As a native Georgian, I feel we have been publicly embarrassed in the media enough.

Do they not realize that under the Constitution they have the right of free speach? Most likely not, or they wouldn't be doing this. Or maybe it is to make that point in the face of Tech's ruling.

You have a point-I shouldn't read anything more taxing than the comics before I've had me tea. I here the kettle calling now,,,

[wetdryvac.livejournal.com]

Being a coffee vac - and a coffeed up coffee vac at the moment - I figured I'd be fine reading that. Instead, I discover that my brain hurts from logic failure, so I'm off to try and cure the pain with more coffee.

[tyleet1047.livejournal.com]

I wonder if this lady is a GA native... usually Southerners with those kind of views are too polite to want to sue for the right to protest. She must be a transplant (in addition to being crazy). on the off chance that she or her colleague are from my hometown (Atlanta), i apologize on behalf of GA natives everywhere.

That said, many of the interesting intolerance cases come from GA, including several of the landmark American death penalty cases. we're lucky that way. or something.

-co

[liadan-m.livejournal.com]

Ah, but they're not banning offensive speech at all. This is a civil suit, because she got reprimanded for harassment and is being petulant. Harassment has all sorts of fed. court. precedent, mostly 'don't do it.' If they were banning it, it would be one thing, but from what the article is implying, they school doesn't have a policy on speaking out against gays and lesbians, it has a policy that no student should harass another for any reason.

[ckd]

Bingo. Now, here's the counter-argument:

"You're using your freedom of association to not associate yourself with people you disagree with. By not giving you money, we are doing the same thing."

(This is my response to the "waah, the Boy Scouts aren't getting money from United Way any more" folks. You want to discriminate? You have to let people discriminate against you.)

[liadan-m.livejournal.com]

nevermind. just re-read the article....

[liadan-m.livejournal.com]

I'm with you about the tea. time to go find some.

And to think, I grew up with these people.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I linked to that last night in my own LJ, and yes, the stupid burns and makes one wish to tear out one's hair if one thinks about it.

*offers tea*

[naraht.livejournal.com]

*wonders what the HELL a Jew is doing joining this lawsuit*

Having read the article in full....without more info, I can't make a truely informed decision on this, cause I'm not sure what the crazy christian was saying that got her reprimanded....I do think the lawsuit is going overboard however, and would set a dangerous precident. I can however sympithise with the frustration of being constantly inudated with propoganda that one feels is imoral & tasteless, and the frustration when it seems that everyone expects you to participate. It happens every year around Easter & Christmas. Leave me alone, I don't care about bunnies & fat men with a children fetish.

[azurelunatic]

Physical violence is not the solution to fixing the attitudes of others. Physical violence is not the solution to fixing the attitudes of others. Physical violence is not the solution to fixing the attitudes of others.

That being said:

By equating homosexuality with race, Baylor said, tolerance policies put conservative evangelicals in the same category as racists. He predicts the government will one day revoke the tax-exempt status of churches that preach homosexuality is sinful or that refuse to hire gays and lesbians.

"Think how marginalized racists are," said Baylor, who directs the Christian Legal Society's Center for Law and Religious Freedom. "If we don't address this now, it will only get worse."

(Emphasis mine.)

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Yes, that jumped out at me too.

My personal take on this is that I am not morally or legally required to tolerate any viewpoint which will not extend to me the same courtesy. Tolerance is a 2-way street; if you want to benefit from it, you have to give it as well.

And yes, EVERY SINGLE RELIGION is a lifestyle choice. I wish more people were aware of that argument and used it regularly.

[kilrah7060.livejournal.com]

news before tea always ends violently.

in this case, violent laughter.

[rous3.livejournal.com]

Is it possible that the girl was only saying that we have the same rights to speak against homosexuality that they have to speak for it? It seems that it is okay to proclaim to the world your views, but the minute a differing view is expressed, we are called intolerant. As another poster said, it is a two way street. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. By stifling one, you have stilled a voice. That is not right.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's a two-way street... in both directions. Preach intolerance, and expect to be met with the same. This is not an oxymoron -- why should anyone be expected to be tolerant of people saying they should be confined or killed?

My usual sarcastic way of phrasing this is, "The only good bigot is a dead bigot."

[azurelunatic]

Though one of my friends did point out that while there are people who are intensely aware of their sexual orientation well before the teenage years, serious religious instruction starts from the cradle.

It's a nation of religious azi. Where's the Super?

[azurelunatic]

From what I gleaned from the article, the girl was feeling oppressed by the sort of "in your face" that is a LGBT club existing and advertising on campus, and did not feel that the existence and advertising of the religion-based club she was in (a club that did not feel that being gay is OK) was not enough to "counter" the fact that there is a LGBT club on campus. When she started doing more than that, that's when she got reprimanded.

There's a very distinct line between "We have the right to exist and have rights, and it's OK" and "People who think that gays shouldn't have rights are obsolete morons". There's another very distinct line between "Marriage is for a man and a woman" and "All gays are going to hell." Two of these statements are valid statements of protest. Two of them are valid feelings that nonetheless are insulting and worthy of reprimand if proclaimed in a personally hostile way, especially in the context of a college campus.

[rous3.livejournal.com]

When did I say anyone should be killed? No one has the right to kill anyone for their beliefs or lifestyles. And, as I stated, I am not hateful of the person, but I do believe the practice is wrong. I am just saying that I have as much right to say so as the other person has to say they are right. Perhaps I was wrong to believe that my views would be accepted less than anyone else's. If I offend you with what I see as truth, then I appologize. As for bigotry, the Christians do not have the corner market on that; the opposing side is just as bigoted in trying to silence them. You are right, preach hatred and that is what you get. I am not advocating hatred and violence against anyone, nor do I expect it in return. I am just tired of having views opposed to mine shoved down my throat, as I am sure the other side is just as tired.

[rous3.livejournal.com]

Yes, they have the right to live as they want, just as I have the right to not be subjected to it or have my children subjected to it. And, as the article said, the girl was over the top with her comments. It is never right to denigrate anyone because of their beliefs. And, you are right about the statements you make. SOME "Christians" proclaim that all homosexuals are going to hell. Who died and left them God? Last I heard, He was still planning on handling things Himself, so no man has the right to judge in that manner.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

When I see garbage on the TV, I don't demand that it not be broadcast; I turn it off (if the set is under my control) or walk away. Most gays (and non-Christians too, for that matter) would be perfectly happy to leave the Christianists to their beliefs. The problem is that the Christianists won't extend to them the same courtesy, which is where this entire conversation started.

(Note that I say "Christianists", because I am well aware that not all Christians pull this kind of bullshit. "Christianist" is analogous to similar terms such as sexist, racist, or Islamist. Some people also call them "Old Testament Christians", because Jesus seems largely to have fallen out of what they believe.)

There's usually a nasty little gotcha in the "but why do we have to put up with X being in our faces all the time?" argument. I've yet to encounter someone who said that who, if questioned further, did not prove to define "in our faces" as having to acknowledge the existence of X in any way whatsoever.

And if the only acceptable level of X is no X at all, that necessarily involves (in the long run) either mindwipe, prison camps, or extermination. You don't believe these people want gays dead? Go poke around on some of the Christianist websites for a while. Oh, they won't say it in so many words, but it's there once you learn the code phrases.

[rous3.livejournal.com]

I stand corrected. Thank you.