(Queen of) Hungary Water: an inquiry

[dianeduane]

My husband likes to smell good in lots of different ways. As a result, he collects colognes -- almost none of them the big names familiar in high-street shops and department stores. What P. mostly likes are less well known fragrances like the Extract of West Indian Lime from Geo F. Trumper's, or the terrific "Number Six" made by Caswell-Massey, a former favorite of George Washington's (the Marquis de Lafayette sent him some: the company apparently still has the sales order).

Just about his only venture into mainstream fragrancing has been at the Crabtree & Evelyn end of things. But this has proven very frustrating over time, as he keeps finding colognes there that he likes, and almost as soon as he finds them, C&E  in turn discontinues them. Their "Gentlemen's Cologne" was the first of his favorites to go this way (and though it was an okay fragrance, I can't say I wept too much over this, as the stuff was so heavy on the bitter aloes and myrrh that kissing him was like getting up close and personal with a nail-biting cure).

But they also discontinued one that was way more pleasant, and had an interesting history. "Hungary Water" is short for "Queen of Hungary Water", a modern version of what may be the oldest compounded fragrance on record (the OED citations go back to the 1500's; the fragrance itself may be much older, dating back to the 1300's or thereabouts depending on which Queen you think you're dealing with). It's really terrific, a fresh clean aromatic scent; but P. won't use it because the one bottle is all he's got. And in this economy, our original plan of eventually taking the stuff to Paris and hiring a parfumier to analyze and reproduce it is going to have to wait.

Now surely a fragrance this old and venerable hasn't simply vanished. While I've found some homebrew-y versions out there on the web, I'm not entirely convinced of their bona fides. Some of them get confused and base their preparations on a vinegar-based re-invention of the stuff that dates back to the 1980's or so. Others get kind of carried away with legends about the Queen or the prospect of the stuff's possible curative properties. ...Though so did Culpeper. Check out this quote from his 1693 Pharmacopeia Londoniensis:

"The water (containing an infusion of spirits) is admirable cure-all remedy of all kinds of cold and humidity-induced head ailments, apoplexies, epilepsies, dizziness, lethargy, crippleness, nerves diseases, rheumatism, flaws, spasms, loss of memory, coma, drowsiness, deafness, ear buzzing, derangement of vision, blood coagulation, mood-induced headaches headaches. Relieves toothache, useful for stomach cramps, pleuritis, lack of appetite, indigestion, obstruction of the liver, obstruction of the spleen, intestinal obstruction and contraction of the uterus. It receives and preserves natural heat, restores body functions and capabilities even at late age (saying has it). There are not many remedies producing that many good effects. Use internally in wine or vodka, rinse temples, breath in with your nose."

(Wow, Nick, is there anything this stuff doesn't do?)

Anyway, while the above variants are interesting in their way, my normal response when trying to find the best version of a traditional fragrance is to try to figure out where the source is, and get some there (as, for example, what you would consider the trope namer if this was going to be TV Tropes: if you're into cologne, you go to Köln / Cologne, where they have for centuries made 4711 and its great rival Farina, and there are huge noisy tussles in the media as to which one is most traditional or best).

So theoretically, for Hungary water, it makes a certain amount of sense to look around for it in Hungary. All I need to know now is: what is Hungary water called in Hungary? Does it have a Magyar name, or are they using French terminology for it (which was commonplace enough in previous centuries)? And if the stuff is still distilled there, is there one Hungary water that claims to be the original one / best?

When we have enough data, and especially if there are more than one of these colognes extant, we can hunt them down, try them out, and see which one is nicest. Anyway, if anyone has info about this, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!

Comments

[scorbet.livejournal.com]

I went to the French wiki page to see if they had any more information, and according to that, Eau de Hongrie is being made by Fragonard, a French Parfumerie in Grasse. http://www.fragonard.com/parfums_grasse/men/eau-de-hongrie-c-94.htm

Also linked from the French wiki is a "History of grand ancient and less ancient perfumes" by a French Professor Emeritus at the university of Lyon. One of the sources cited claims that the best Eau de Hongrie was made in Montpelier. (Back in 1693) apparently because of the rosemary flowers found in that area.

[demarafis]

Elisabeth of Poland's Hungarian Wikipedia page does not appear to have any references to Hungary Water, which makes me think it's not commercially native to Hungary.

This "essay" contains an "original recipe" plus directions. It looks like one of the more factual articles around, complete with references.

Under the term larendogra (from French, la reine d'Hongrie, I think), here is another very simple recipe with directions.

Googling ("hungary water" -polo) (sans brackets) resulted in mostly folk recipies and herbal remedies. Aside from Crabtree & Evelyn, no other commercial company seem to have produced this cologne line.

Googling (crabtree evelyn hungary water) resulted in a lot of requests for the product. Perfume Intelligence's page on Crabtree & Evelyn contain more info on the actual fragrances contained in the product. There's also an occasional ebay sales posting. Additionally, these pages might also be of interest to you.

TL;DR: from what I've read so far it's either 1) ebay hunting for the original C&A cologne, 2) purchase herbal remedies, or 3) brew-your-own (check your local laws for distillation alcohol).

=/

[ericavdg.livejournal.com]

I loved a men's cologne (can't remember now if it was Crabtree & Evelyn or Caswell-Massey, it's been so long). It was an orange and spice fragrance that smelled great on me. I only learned it was discontinued when I went to buy more. One place to try for "out of print" colognes and cosmetics is the Vermont Country Store, which has a catalog and an online presence. I was finally able to get more "Tigress" cologne from them, one that was popular in the late 60s and early 70s. The bottle doesn't have the same tiger-print fake fur on the cap, but otherwise it's identical. I don't use it much because now I tend to use essential oils such as lavendar as perfume, but it's nice to have around for the rare occasion I feel perfumy. Good luck in your quest for the Queen!

[muppetk.livejournal.com]

*giggle* Sounds like he's got as much of a perfume obsession as I do... tell him to set up a recurring search on ebay. A lot of discontinued stuff winds up there.

So being a perfume junkie, I just went on a total googling quest just now. I found this blend by Possets which was "made in the tradition of Hungary Water":
http://www.possets.com/permanent/zubenelgenubi-100-natural-blend

And I know a fair number of people who are quite fond of the Possets line of perfumes, even if they don't do much for me.


You may also wish to point him to The Perfumed Court. TPC offers samples of all kinds of high end perfumes, ships internationally, and doing a quick search for rosemary yields many interesting things for him to try:
http://theperfumedcourt.com/search.aspx?keyword=rosemary

In particular, based on the description & notes, Guerlain's Imperiale EDC sounds like it may have some similarities:
http://theperfumedcourt.com/Products/Guerlain-Imperiale-EDC__GUERLAINIMPERIALEEDC.aspx

(Though to be fair, I have sniffed *neither*, so don't blame me if they're nothing alike)

[rikhei.livejournal.com]

The best I can find so far is this place (http://hu-hu.facebook.com/pages/Le-Parfum-Z%C3%B3lyomi-Zsolt-Parf%C3%BCm%C3%A9ri%C3%A1i/352054504752?sk=info).

Unfortunately, I've seen both the French name (Eau de la Reine de l'Hongrie) and what I assume is a Magyar name (Magyar Királyné Vizének).

Found some conflicting information - or at least it seems that way; I may just be misunderstanding because I don't read Hungarian! - one section of this page appears to suggest that it's being made in France, in the area of Montpellier, but then later it suggests it's not being made anymore. (source (http://www.terebess.hu/tiszaorveny/zoldseg/rozmaring.html))

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Good luck!

Hopefully helpful information for Hungary Water

[dark-blade.livejournal.com]

Hello! A friend linked me to your journal on account of your ebook sale. :)

With a bit of looking, I found an article written by an herbalist in the SCA. This excerpt may help you:

- Recipe from Perfumes, Splashes and Colognes, slightly modified due to my own absent-mindedness: ingredients include: Peel of one orange, 1 c. orangeflower water, 1 c. vodka, 1/2 t. essential oil of lemon, 2 t. essential oil of bergamot, 1/2 t. essential oil of rosemary, 4 tb dried peppermint leaf.
This produced something similar to the modern citrus-oriented scent that was recently marketed by Crabtree and Evelyn as Hungary Water.

Taken from "Queen of Hungary Water: Some experiments in perfumery" by Jadwiga Zajaczkowa/Jenne Heise located at http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/herbs/hungarywater.html