In the "You Could Not Make This Up" department

[dianeduane]

…And it’s fascinating.

Purported descendants of the Knights Templars are suing Pope Benedict for recognition of the seizure of a hundred billion Euros’ worth of their ancestors’ assets and property in the mid-1200s. (The seizure was secondary to accusations that the Order was heretical, and involved — among other things — in devil worship: but these accusations now usually thought to have been a smokescreen intended to allow the appropriation of the Templars’ great wealth.) 

[Those suing the Pope] claim that, when the order was dissolved , more than 9,000 properties as well as other commercial enterprises belonging to the knights were appropriated by the church.

Their legal claim, they say, is just to "restore their good name." In a press release, the self-proclaimed "sons of the knights" declared, "We are not trying to cause the economic collapse of the Roman Catholic Church, but to illustrate to the court the magnitude of the plot against our Order."

 

Tags: Templar, Knights, Pope, Benedict, Order, France, Crusades, Crusaders

Comments

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Crazy thing is, they've actually got a fairly good case legally... not that they'd get anything like the damages they're asking for, but it's a pretty good bet they'll get the Orders good name restored at least.

[wordwitch.livejournal.com]

The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small. I'll be waiting to see the outcome of this: it might encourage other lawsuits against venial(? monetary?) actions of the Catholic Church. And others.

[touchstone.livejournal.com]

On the other hand...hmm.

So, to have standing for this sort of suit, they clearly have to declare themselves as representing the interests of the Templars. It's a double-edged sword. If you can claim recompense for damages done TO the Order, then you can also be held responsible for damages they did to others. I think that in Round 2, a group out of the Middle East should press THEIR claim to whatever the Church owes the Templars, on the grounds that it was derived from wealth seized during the Crusades :)

After all, if the Templars were acting as part of the Church in the Crusades when they gathered the wealth, then moving it to a different part of the Church is just an internal matter. And if they were acting as on their /own/ when they gathered it, they were non-state actors in an armed conflict...ie, brigands. At least, one could amusingly make the case, with much high drama.

(That said, yes, everything I know about the period says that what happened to the Templars was pure dirty politics, and pretty ugly.)

[phoebesmum.livejournal.com]

Can they sue Bonekickers next?

[wolfette]

I think the crux will be proving that they are indeed the descendants and legal heirs.

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

True that, OTOH, there are a lot of Orders still existent stemming from back then that could be more readily perused. The Dominius Canii for example...

[sorek.livejournal.com]

How is this different in principal from Native American tribes suing the US Federal Government?

Or African American groups suing the US for crimes revolving around slavery?

Not that any of these groups have a chance of winning mind you...

[dewline.livejournal.com]

You might be interested in perusing some of the court decisions in Canada re: First Nations and their claims against our own federal government. Those could be used as further precedent by those proposed Middle Eastern claimants against these heirs of the Templars.

As an aside: I can't help wondering how amused a certain other (fictional) Templar might be by all of this.

[touchstone.livejournal.com]

Well, both of those groups were political underdogs oppressed by a group vastly more powerful than they were.

The Templars, on the other hand, were one of the most powerful political and economic forces of their day, made lots of enemies getting there, and eventually fell because those enemies made common cause against them. It's really not the same at all. The Templars, I think it can be argued, weren't oppressed...they played the power game and lost.

[touchstone.livejournal.com]

Whoops, can't edit. Addendum to the above: I'm not making any claims about whether they were heroes or villains. For this purpose, it doesn't matter. Merely that they put themselves on the board as players, and had a position of strength.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

I think the crux will be getting around whatever statutes of limitations are in existence.

[jfs.livejournal.com]

Agreed. The Templars weren't a hereditary order or a family. They were a part of the Roman Catholic Church and were disbanded by it and their assets seized.

How is that any different to a company shutting down one of its factories and asset stripping it? It's not nice, but the assets didn't belong to the Templars in isolation; they belonged to them as part of the Church.

[jaxomsride.livejournal.com]

It will be interesting to see how the case progresses.
But what's next does the Catholic Church then sue the Queen Of England for all the lands Henry VIII seized?

[kengr]

Venial: minor transgression, easily forgiven (eg a venial sin)

Venal: corrupt

[kengr]

Actually, Native American tribes and the lawsuits are oone of the reasons the US won't acknowledge to authority of several "world court" type bodies. Seems the Indian filed suit and won back in the 60s (or so I recall)

[stokerbramwell.livejournal.com]

...wow.

Very wow.

[llennhoff.livejournal.com]

If you liked that, you might also enjoy the lawsuit to overturn a blasphemy conviction (http://llennhoff.livejournal.com/16229.html).

[kayshapero]

Or we could have the Celts suing the Saxons for invading England and the Saxons suing the French for invading England and...

[kayshapero]

Plergb.

[bellinghman.livejournal.com]

... and doing the Celts for genocide, since the people there before their invasion aren't to be found any more.

Deeply messy idea.

[anamin.livejournal.com]

Huh? Ok.

On a similar note makes me want to go back and re-read Focault's Pendulum. . .

[touchstone.livejournal.com]

On the bright side, just think of how many lawyers the whole finger-pointing death-spiral would take out of circulation for the years and years required to sort it all out. It's like the legal version of carbon sequestration....

[kayshapero]

And doubtless the predecessors of the pre-Celts over whoever they did in to take over.

And then back the other way to go after Stephen and Maud for the ungodly ruin they made of the place whilst fighting over the crown.

[kayshapero]

That's the general idea - any familiarity with the history of the British Isles will give you material to go on indefinitely. Wales, Cornwall, Scotland, Ireland... It's the history of Europe in a small space.

[ndgmtlcd.livejournal.com]

The knights templar were supposed to be celibate monks! Besides, anybody who's, watched the "Les rois maudits" French TV series (or its remake) knows that it's all king Philip le bel's fault and not the church's. He's the one who needed the templar fortunes the most and he's the one who got the biggest share of the seized properties and goosds..

[dewline.livejournal.com]

They really need to stop worrying in Washington. We've had court cases between Ottawa and the First Nations over the last few decades, several of which ended in First Nations victories, we've also signed onto those international-jurisdiction court treaties and Confederation hasn't yet caved in under the legal and financial weight of the consequences. The United States will likewise survive, I'm sure.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

I don't think He's too concerned about such mundanities. :-)